I am starting my first Bug Out Bag. I’ve packed for a bunch of backpacking and camping trips in my life but I have never had a Bug Out Bag.
I am going to write update articles here on Survival Cache when I add stuff to my BOB so new survivalists can follow along and I can ask questions and get ideas from the more experienced preppers out there.
Obviously a good place to start with your Bug Out Bag is the bag itself. I am going with a military surplus ALICE Pack for a couple of reasons. The main one being that it’s what I already have.
Sure there are lots of better bags out there but I really can’t afford to drop $100-200 bucks on a new pack right now and emergencies don’t wait for you to have all your gear ready. Something is better than nothing.
I’ve got a couple of other backpacks but I chose the ALICE because its heavy duty, durable, and I won’t miss it from my regular outdoor gear.
I have backpacked with this pack before, both with and without the frame. I haven’t decided if I am going to leave the frame on for my Bug Out Bag or not.
I would like to hear from others with a survivalist perspective on whether you think its better with frame or without?
If you are just getting started with your Bug Out Bag you should read: The 7 Types of Gear You Must Have in your Bug Out Bag
Stuff in My Buy Out Bag so far:
I added most of my fire starting materials: Do you have 5 Ways to Make Fire?
Warm Clothes: Do you have seasonal clothes in your Bug Out Bag?
5 Dollar Preps: Fishing Gear and First Aid
For Poisonous Snake Bites: The Sawyer Extractor
More 5 Dollar Preps: Sewing and Gun Cleaning
A Collapsible Backpacking Bucket and for drinking water backup a Collapsible Water Bottle.
Check out our new Survival Store – Forge Survival Supply.
Here’s a couple of pictures. Pretty standard medium ALICE pack with frame.
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An "ALICE Pack, Medium" will really hurt your back if you do not use a frame and have any real weight in it.
That said, you will want to adjust and use the kidney pack with the wiast straps as designed, too. I am a fan of adding sternum straps as well – we used to have about 60-80 pounds regularly in our rucks and barely felt it on our backs – the FEET were the ones requiring much more care and attention.
The frame gives you a lot of carry flexibility as well – I would invest in the shelf attachment, too – you can carry 5-gal jugs lashed to the pack frame all day long without killing your hands.
The nice thing about the ALICE system is that they're so versatile and mod-friendly.
I have found that with a forty pound weight the medium frame digs quite uncomfortably into my upper back, although I do like the advantages the pack frame gives you.
try adding some pipe insulation the gray foam to reduce the preassure the frame puts on you
Okay, Ill have to try that.
Alice packs are junk they are back killers go by a frame pack like a killty or an intrnal frame pack.
dustin 2 good things to add to your pack is medicated foot powder and oregano oil . this oil kills athletes foot fungus on contact !
Go by some good sockes and a good par of boots and two good walking sticks and some good gell iner soles ceep them clean or horse har iner soles .
Seriously? Ive had some wicked jungle rot on my one foot and have tried everything to get rid if it. This actually works?
I've used white vinegar. Some suggest a 50/50 mix with water and a soak. I just apply straight from bottle with cotton ball before getting in the shower.
When I was in basic training in the army we had 2 main bags we used, one being the med ALICE with the web gear, the other is smaller similar to those gym bags you see people use to throw a towel and such in with strings for straps. The smaler bag was used on a daily basiis to carry our canteens, gloves and anything else we might need for the day.
The ALICE pack was used whenever we had serious marches to do and we never got our frames and they did make our backs and shoulders hurt but our feet always seemed to hurt more. (Army boots are made by the cheapest bidder after all.)
I'm trying to pick out a good pack for my BOB right now and I had been seriously considering a mamoth sized bag from Blackhawk but 2 things made me reconsider that, 1) the price almost $250 and 2) the weight. I got to thinking if I had to grab my BOB and move in a hurry well you can't just grab a 75lb bag by the straps with 1 arm and haul butt outta there. besisdes I'd like 1 with a built in hydration baldder. that way I can carry up to 200ozs of water and it'll be out of the way. food for thought, I plan to fill my water bladder with Smartwater. It tastes like regular water but has the bennifit of electrolytes to help with energy and hydration.
Just started my own BOB and GHB as i live in a 'downtown metropolis' type area. In a SHTF or a WTF TEOTWAWKI situation, I've realized that getting the F* outta dodge (with the wife) is going to be top priority. Knowing the traffic situation and geogrpahy of the area, it takes an hour to get anywhere on a GOOD DAY!__The items I've chosen for my BOB & GHB are intended to get me to a larger stash of supplies outside the city. As such, I have to be able to travel 10-15miles as fast as possible, and this can't include any major road ways.
For my pack itself I've chosen a Camelpack like this http://www.joesarmynavyonline.com/servlet/Detail?…
The included bladder holds 2-liters.
Adding supplies to the pack, I've used several ziploc baggies for various items. 1 bag for vitamins/pills etc, 1 bag for matches/lighters, 1 bag for a selection of batteries as so on. beside keeping all my various gear dry and clean. Ziploc baggys are useful for just carrying water, or even for emergency medical dressings.
With 1-liter in the bladder i still have plenty of room for supplies. Not knowing how long it will take me to get to said stash (it shouldnt take more than 1-2hours but things happens and plans are made to be broken) my BOB also functions as a 72hour kit.
Something I did for my kits; I sometimes drink a '5hour energy' for work. I've kept several of these bottles which are pretty sturdy 2oz. plastic bottles. I've found these bottles useful for rationing/distributing Iso alcohol, Hydrogen Peroxide etc.
Remembering the basics of survival first: Fire/Food/Water/Shelter I should be able to last longer than 72hours without anything else. Each item listed is in both mine and the wife's pack. So if for some reason we lose a pack, we wont lose ALL of a single type of supply. Total wieght per pack is less than 10pounds.
#1 — Multiple ways of makng FIRE: Magnesium starter, several boxes of waterproof matches, a few cheap cigarette lighters. and small rolled up wads of toilet paper for normal use or fire-tender.
#2 — Food: 1200calorie food bars, a selection of daily Vitamins/ personal medications lasting a few days, tylenol. Ibuprofen. Allegy pills, TUMS –> CANNED TUNA, 1can = 20% daily protein.
#3 — Water: 2-liter bladder in pack, water purification tablets and 'water presserver' drops.
#4 — 1 10'x10' camo tarp & 100' para cord.
Also included in each pack: I also got a 'BG Gerber' Machette (just one)
1 wire-cutter, at least sturdy enough to easily cut through chain-link fence
1 'Red Head' 8" hunting knife w/ camo sheath. High-quality steel, comes razor sharp and can be resharpened to a new razor edge. For only $25ea at Bassproshops, I considered them a good buy. http://www.basspro.com/RedHead-Camo-Gut-Hook-Fixe…
5 pair HotHands handwarmers , 1 Multi-tool knife , toothbrush, 2 Emergency blankets
4 medical gauze, small assortment of bandaids, 2 2oz. bottles hydrogen peroxide, 2 2oz. bottles Iso. Alcohol., 1 small tube of burn cream, 1tube cream anti-biotic, 2 MRE chemical heaters, 1 pack Toilet chemical, 1 ROLL DUCT TAPE (do i need to explain why?) AND 1 GLOCK 9mm
Dustin,
Thanks for the comment. I think you make a good point about the frame.
I hadn't thought about adding a sternum strap but that's a good idea, most other quality packs have them.
And yes footcare is priority number 1 on any distance hike. Learned that the hard way more than once.
I'm going to look into that carry attachment.
I'm happy with the pack overall, but in the future I might look into something a little nicer. I really like some of the 5.11 packs. But it's always best to have something now.
can i please get a list of bob contents and a gun to go with a link too
The ALICE pack is an awesome pack. I used one WITH the frame as an Infantry Machine gunner in the Corps…trust me, it saves your back from painful hikes! The kidney pad is also a must!. I was issued a camelbak motherload in my current job and it will be serving as my bug out bag. Lots of space, padded straps, kidney pad included, and includes the sternum strap. Plus water is immediately available. See you out there…be safe!
Dustin,
Thanks for the comment. I think you make a good point about the frame.
I hadn't thought about adding a sternum strap but that's a good idea, most other quality packs have them.
And yes footcare is priority number 1 on any distance hike. Learned that the hard way more than once.
I'm going to look into that carry attachment.
I'm happy with the pack overall, but in the future I might look into something a little nicer. I really like some of the 5.11 packs. But it's always best to have something now.
Drier lint soaked in melted wax and rolled up into crude little sticks somewhere between the size of a birthday cake candle and a cigarette works well. It doesn't matter how ugly they are, neatness doesn't much count. Keep them in a ziplock along with some fully wax-coated strike-anywhere matches if you can. I don't know if these firestarters will ignite from a traditional flint and steel, but I know they will from the spark of a modern metallic composition one. These have never failed me in rapidly starting a fire under any conditions – and they're light, small and cheap.
Back to the details:
Deep Woods Off
2L Bladder
4 Knives (Machete, two Bowies, and a pocket… oh and I have two Katanas not packed though)
Poncho
Maps of Texas (I have also compiled MapQuest directions to three different BOLs within 10 miles of my home. I have to mention that I live in a suburb of Fort Worth, TX. It’s not easy to find a location close by to hike a family of four to. If our vehicles are available I have a map taking to a very remote country road in Montana if needed.)
The last part is below:
Compass with magnifier lens (Fire source)
Small Bass Pro first aid (I have a Johnson and Johnson 150 piece kit as well not packed though.)
Two rolls of TP
About 200 feet of Para cord (either braded or knotted for compression or loose)
Three different survival books (Yeah it adds a little bit of weight but in case of my demise I want my city mouse wife to have something that will help her.)
Two flash lights one crank style (8 double A Batteries, 8 triple a batts, energizer battery charger.
Sewing Kit
Lighter, Matches, flint striker, Brilo pad and a cell phone, and small fire starter logs.)
Glow Sticks
Bungee cords
Pocket Saw
Four 9×12 Husky 2 mil drop clothes, one 10×20 1 mil husky drop.
More below:
Now for what is not necessarily attached but included in one way or another:
Sleeping bag
Mossberg 500 Persuader (About 30 rounds of 00 Buck, and about 40 rnds of Bird shot)
Unknown manufacturer 30-06 with about 30 rnds
Bersa 380 with about 75 rnds
Two thick walking sticks built for action
FYI – I am bugging out four people one of which is a 16 month old so its obvious I will have to equip our party with another ALICE pack.
Please provide comments and suggestions.
Timmy,
I'm glad that worked out for you. I'm definitely a novice gun smith to say the least but I might try this one.
one of the things I would concider is finding Caching locations near where you are going even if it is just some of the non perishables like TP and freeze dryed food somthing that if it is found by people by accident it will not mean the end of your group a couple of mine have been stumbled on and used but the people were nice and came back and replaced what they used I know they were greatly realived to find my cache and we are now good friends he was lost while hiking and he and i think that he would have died without those things so it was a good thing and now he is a big member in my team.
try to reduce what you are carrying on the initial bug out i have a survival trailer that is almost always ready to go unless i am doing some upgrades to it all i need to do is drop it on the ball on my jeep and go it is a good way to have a bug out system.
I am a Canadian living in Nova Scotia> I cannot buy a medium ALICE pack like yours here anywhere.. incl. our war surplus stores. What did your ALICE pack cost you? Would you be interested in getting one for me and mailing it to me were I to send you the money for the rucksack and frame and shipping. Sure would be nice to have something that will stand up. Thanks.
Great list!
I would add rat traps, or replace the mouse traps with them. A mouse trap will likely not kill a rat, you can't really subsist on mice, but rat traps can catch squirrels, rats, and small rabbits or other critters that are large enough to bother to clean and cook up.
those are some of the draw backs but the pros out weigh the cons we can deal with the time to time hang up for the comfort and added features of the frame.
Dustin,
Thats a good point, I will change that in the article. I've never seen anyone catch a squirrel in a rat trap but some of the traps are pretty huge, I can see how it could be done.
Lucas
another thing to keep in mind is how many compartments there are you will want to have a list of where things are. On mine I have the top flap map case in that i keep a map of all the places i go and have Caches along with a small notepad(one of the wather proof ones that you can write on in rain or snow). That is where i keep my inventory list and location I broke mine down by compartment and laminated it so I know it will not get distroyed by water.
I have been an avid outdoorsmen most of my life I like to keep things lite. On my test week I take only the essentials a knife, sleeping bag, and a few potatos i go for a week and see what other new stuff i can learn while out there. depending on the location is how i decide on weather or not to bring my side arm.
Another thing to keep in mind is web gear the H harnes is a good choice you can wear the web gear and the alice pack at the same time they are made that way and if you have to ditch your main pack for some odd reason like fast get away then you still have the equivelint of a three day pack on your person.
keep your powder dry,
Chuck
Chuck,
Thanks for commenting.
I hadn't thought of actually cataloging everything in my gear and keeping this list handy but that is a good idea. I definitely like your map and paper set up, that is something everyone should have.
You "test weeks" sound pretty intense, but its great that you get that much good practice. What type of terrain are you usually in?
I haven't tried an H harness, I've actually been shopping around for some tac vests lately. I really like the 5.11 lite one right now. It's relatively cheap, but supposed to be good. I should look into some of the H harnesses.
I go just about every where Maine is great for my types of testing. the new tac vests are great but I am not sure they would work well with A.L.I.C.E pack. The H harness you can find at any military supply store get the older canvas ones they make less sound when you need to do some sneacking around. Another thing to look into is the military ponchos they make good emergency shelters. or you can just build one like I do.
I also test my map and compass skills by marking a spot where i leave my main pack. then just wandering off for a while then try to get back so my map and compass skills stay sharp. It is kind of a lost art for the younger generations. lol I say that for a guy that has spent most of my adult life just picking a weekend and leaving, another thing is to find a good size lake that has an island in the middle and snorkling to it for a weekend. it is a real test of your skills to do that cause you end up nice and wet to start out your training.
keep your powder dry guys and gals,
Chuck
You're right in a Bug Out Scenario a fully loaded tac vest and a pack might not work too well together. But I'll have to test it out and see.
Military ponchos are on my list of things to get. They are so versatile.
I think orienteering skills are one of the least practiced but most needed skills by all preppers and survivalists.
I haven't practiced in a while, but I did my fair share in scouts. I feel like it's like riding a bike. I used to be good at it and with some practice I would be fine. I should really take some time to brush up though.
hey Lucas
you are so right, I think that making your gear work for yourself is the right thing to do I forgot that lesson from a former ranger. If you are comfortable with your gear then you have no issues. Remember that you can reduce your weight by looking at gear that can do multiple jobs(like a suvival saw can also make a good snare kind of idea).
I would also like to mention that a good magazine for the money impaired like my self to read and keep on hand is the backwoodsman it can show you survival gardening techniques and how to track the way that the old mountain men used to as well as some other good stuff. I personally like some of the cooking recipes in the back of it.
Thanks for reading my posts i feel like I am actually getting heard by some people and not just some back woods country hick that people think is a little nuts for all the survival training I have done. Its nice to see others like myself are still out there.
Keep your powder dry and your knife sharp,
Chuck
Caine,
I take a little while to respond from time to time, but always enjoy comments from readers.
I'm glad you are enjoying the site. I really want to make Survival Cache a community and resource for all survivalists and preppers.
The way things are getting, survivalist, (or more often "prepper") is becoming more and more mainstream as people are seeing the value of preparing.
I haven't read Backwoodsman magazine but I will definitely take a look at it next time I'm in Barnes and Noble.
Lucas,
Its all good I like sharing my experiences with what works for me and what does not as far as gear is concerned. I try to make it simple and light weight. I am really glade that we have a site where all of us of like mind can talk and share what we have learned.
if you search on line for the backwoodsman magazine you will aee the home page and what they are all about. I have all the issues from 2008 on i love it that much i read it front to back at least five times.
thanks for your site and keep you powder dry,
Chuck
Hey Lucas,
Out of curiosity, do you have a concealed carry permit and do you carry when you are allowed to? Due to my job, I am in the somewhat unique position of being able to carry my duty weapon(s) just about anywhere I go. The only real exceptions to that rule are military bases and airports/ports. For me, that means my BOB will be about 10 lbs lighter, since I usually carry my duty weapon +2 extra magazines on me at all times. My primary vehicle and work vehicle have extra magazines in them as well, as I spend a substantial amount of time in a car. Therefore, if I need to include more water, first aide supplies, etc I have more room.
The concealed carry weapons (CCW) laws in NC restrict you from carrying in a lot of locations people are likely to go on their daily basis. Any mall, gas station, movie theater, or restaurant that serves alcoholic beverages are off-limits for civillians exercising their CCW rights. There are other locations on this as well.
OfficerOtto,
Thanks for commenting. To answer your question yes I do have my carry permit and yes I carry as much as possible. I am fortunate to live in a state that has excellent carry laws.
Your setup sounds pretty good. Incidentally, do you do anything to keep the springs in your magazines from getting worn out when they are sitting around loaded in your vehicles and other places for long periods of time?
I try to keep mine only 90% full when they are sitting for a long time to keep the spring from getting worn out.
Just rotate mags quarterly. Although honestly I dont think its much of a concern with modern tech and metallurgy. Youll find that quality modern springs dont take a set. Also, I always keep mags topped off. A broken in mag is far more dependable than one that hasnt seen much action or held full cap.
OfficerOtto- You make a very good point about CCW, I am in VA where if you have not been charged with violent a misdemeanor or a felony you can "open carry" in most locations without a permit. As you stated nowhere that serves alcohol, government buildings, airports, ports, place of worship and any private location that has a "sign" saying that they do not allow firearms (sometimes as small as a 2" sticker on a obscure spot such as a bottom corner of a door or an odd window) are off limits. It's very important to know your local laws. CCW here in VA does allow you to carry in more locations than "open carry", such as a restaurant that serves alcohol, however you can not drink while carrying. Having a CCW permit also means your vehicle is subject to search at any time without a reason though, I have heard of people fighting this but have not heard of any successful attempts and from what I understand it is rare for officers to do this (there are usually "underlying" reasons for the search). An officer is also allowed to "inspect" your firearm whenever you are carrying, all they have to do is say they want to, you are required to comply.
Lucas- As RudeBoy stated, GOOD quality mags these days should be fine to leave fully loaded for long periods. I have a RIA M1911 which takes "novak" style mags, I buy Mec-Gar, Armsicor, and Chip McCormick mags. I have left them fully loaded for over a year and have had no issues with any of them. However with cheap no-name mags, I have had one where the spring would not return to its original size after only a few weeks of sitting fully loaded. I have also had problems with the pair of "cheapo's" feeding in my pistol. Lesson learned, a few bucks extra on a magazine is well worth the investment if it will work when I need it to
hey Lucas,
not to sound like i am bragging but i just found in a yard sale another full set. ALICE pack with an LBE for 20 bucks it also had in the pack an entrenching tool and two first aid kits score one for me on that one lol. I just happend to stop because i saw ammo cans the military .50 cal cans I love those for storage unit caching they are great. just wanted to let you know it is yardsale time and you can find great deals if you just look.
keep up the good work,
Chuck
haha very nice.
Yea those ammo cans are about the best storage in the world.
I really hate going to yard sales. Something about getting up at 6 am on a saturday to go dig through other peoples junk just doesn't appeal to me. But I'm going to keep an eye on craigslist.
Think about a few tools to disassemble your Alice pack frame. I say this because if you are somewhere for a while the tubing could come in very handy and you could always bug out without the frame.
That's a good idea aj, ill look into that.
The frame on army Alice packs is real heavy duty so you're right I'm sure I could find something useful for it.
one of my buddies used one to tot out a deer he got three miles in the woods not the best thing but it worked
I have had to turn an ALICE pack frame into an improvised splint before, not the easiest thing to disassemble with a Gerber multi-tool but it can be done!
My BOB is a cheap $20.00 pack from Walmart. I have one in each vehicle. I'm not a hiker and don't intend on trekking across the USA. Each bag is set up for 2 people for 3 days. They're for emergency situations only. So my take on the Alice pack is no frame.
Hey Lucas…. I'm worried my bob weighs too much. I have just the basics.. tarp,tube tent. socks,two things of freeze dried food and three ramon noodles, wind-up flashlight,paracord,shirt,homemade survival-kit,folding fire with heat source, cooking set,some snacks( just acouple)along with some powdered drinks packages,tiger-stripe bdu shirt,water filter,poncho,one water blatter and one water bottle(both empty)a lighter,blastmatch,matches,fire tinder bag,Panga knife, bivy bag(from adventure kits!). I have it all paked in my assult pack I picked up on the cheap! If I'm missing anything or if you think I have too much of something let me know! How much shopuld a bug out bag weigh or how much is too much? Thanks!
The biggest issue I tell my friends who are getting into the survivalist/prepper mindset and looking to set up a BOB is whatever weight you can comfortably carry over 5 miles (rough terrain) and have everything you need for a couple days, with at least 1 backup for vital items (knife, water/purification, medical supplies, fire-starter, tinder, ect.). I used to be able to carry a 80lb pack all day through mountain trails… in my younger days. Today, realistically I can carry a 40lb pack and even that's not "comfortable". Then again I have "back issues". Most of the "ultra-light" equipment for climbing tends to lend itself well to my ideal pack, but it can be REAL expensive. There are some military surplus options that can give you a little less weight for a much more reasonable price, like a cooking kit. The standard mess kit issued by the US military is relatively heavy, but a Swiss mess kit weighs about 1/2 and actually has a 1 quart pot. I have seen the Swiss mess kits go for about $15-$20. There are options to save weight and meet your needs, if you look in the right places or don't mind spending a bit more. If you want to save a couple pounds you might want to consider ditching the tube-tent and using your poncho (if it's heavy enough) as a shelter. Also, some of the gear labeled as "tactical" is meant for quick use, not extended long term stuff. Therefore weight is not always a concern with some of those types of gear, not always the case but there are some, so looking at other options might give you the same desired effect without the extra weight.
One thing I didn't see mentioned in your kit is water purification supplies in case something happens to your filtration system. Iodine tablets are cheap and light, I prefer silver oxide (iodine tastes pretty funky) but whatever works for you. You might also want to consider something to use as a "pre-filter", the BDU shirt would work in a pinch, I like to sew a couple layers of pantie-hose inside of a heavy duty boot sock. A "pre-filter" will extend the life of your filters, and if need be you can run water through it to remove physical contaminants and then simply boil/treat it to make it biologically safe.
The other thing I didn't see you mention was a firearm. I am not sure about the laws in your area concerning carrying one, but if things get bad enough to "Bug Out" you might want to have at least a handgun for protection. Personally if I need to "Bug Out" I have 2 handguns (M1911 .45 & PT-92 9mm) and a rifle (Savage 300 win-mag -w- 3-9×40 scope). If I have my vehicle then I have those firearms, I keep them locked up inside a steel box in the back of my JEEP. and can get home prior to "Bug Out" then I will have my full arsenal, but I can tackle almost any issue with those 3 firearms.
Lucas,
I also use a med. ALICE pack as a BOB that I started recently. I keep mine on the frame, mostly so that I have something to lash things onto while out in the woods, such as firewood or food. Its a lot easier to remove the pack and lash on a large load of firewood to bring back to your camp, or an animal that has been skinned and field dressed for food.
Just found this site today and have enjoyed looking around.
Some of you may scoff at this idea, but a rolling backpack (like a rolling suitcase with shoulder straps) or even a rolling suitcase might be a good choice for some folks.
Not everyone can put a heavy, or medium p-heavy pack on their back. Or if they can they may not be able to get very far with it for a number of reasons.
Even if you could, there will be times when you’ll wish you could get that pack off and be able to keep moving and save your energy.
Effectiveness would be limited to paved surfaces, but if you’re in Urban (like me), there isn’t much else for MILES.
I think the rolling backpack is better becauwe you can put it on when you need to (obstacles, shortcuts, crowds, etc).
Also, if you have kids, you could carry one while wheeling along.
Speaking of kids, until yours are old/strong enough to walk unassisted for a couple miles, keep a small/cheapie umbrella stroller around (or one for each adult if you’re blessed with 2 or more children). They’re not too big or heavy and will alow you to keep moving with your kids when they get too tired or are too slow. Beats having to carry them with that Alice pack on your back. Also the stroller itself can be used to carry stuff and provide a sort of base-of-operations when you stop to rest.
These ideas are probably not too viable in the wilderness, but as an urban dweller, I’m more concerned with getting outta here than what I’ll do when I get there.
A Radio Flyer red wagon will also to that trick and you can carry the kid(s) and some gear as well
Take Care
a nice set of skate board trucks will work, i have used them to attached to a standard 2×6 to move huge pieces of furnature around in my house, because i live alone. they weigh damn near nothing and could easy fit into one pack.
One important thing to consider with a modified shopping cart or wagon- Unless you have your supplies covered, everyone and their brother can see what you have. This could make you a target if you have anything they want! Also, the shopping cart can be REALLY noisy! This can also draw unwanted attention to you if you are in an urban/population dense area. The shopping cart/wagon also means you will have difficulty negotiating rougher terrain (debris in the streets) and could make it easier for someone to set up a "choke point", where they can easily ambush you. I am not attempting to argue the value of a wagon or cart (I have a John Deer "garden cart" with bigger, wider tires with fairly deep tread I might use in a BO situation), just some "food for thought" about how to effectively utilize them and be safe! Remember whatever you do security is important, and didn't those covered wagons back-in-the-day get attacked CONSTANTLY?!
You're right. Homeless people have a big head start on the rest of us.
Gotta get one with good wheels, though. The ones they have at Costco (at least around me), really suck.
Thanks guys for all the info on BOBs and things… I started building an Apocalypse box and there is a military surplus store nearby so an ALICE pack from there is my best bet, I guess…
Thanks, guys.
There are other options to the ALICE pack, I use a Special Forces Patrol Pack. It's lighter, looks like a cammo book bag and holds almost as much as the Med. ALICE. I also have several MOLLE "re-supply packs" that I can secure to it if I need to increase the amount that I can carry. There are also civilian options, I have an old Jansport external frame "backpacking" pack that is my secondary bag, for a more long distance bug out.
The biggest thing to consider is what you need to carry in the pack and what pack is comfortable to you. My patrol pack cost about $35, so it's a little more expensive than the average ALICE pack but it is MUCH more comfortable for me. There are also civilian external and internal frame options you could consider, that may be more comfortable.
love the alice . know alot of people who use them and they are great. also something to remember about the bob .if you take meds it might be good to get a stock pile of your prescriptions that will last for the bag . i also have a swiss officers bag .it looks like a purse but holds a butload and can be treated with waterproofing so it also works for documents very well. and, i have a sig p226 in 40 , a remington 12 gauge and a rra ar 15 so anyone who makes fun of my purse on d day will be dealt with accordingly.
A man after my own heart. All the great gear in the world does no good if you lose it to the first thug whose emergency preparation plan was to take what he needs from the sheep.
only the unwilling are the sheep but when the chips are down even the most unprepared man will fight for what others have so shoot first and let death sort them out.
I agree that anybody who tries to give me trouble in a SHTF situation is asking for a whole lot more than they REALLY want to mess with. Just make sure you handle the situation appropriately, not all threats need to be addressed with lethal force, that being said… don't take chances either, protect you and yours!
I use a combination Alice-Molle pack version Of Enforcer's here. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t…
Im a bit new to the Survivalism movement, but i do strongly support the survivalist mindset.
i want to know one thing, i have most of the gear needed to last at least 4 days in an emergency scenario, but i need one thing, what pack should i get? .ALICE bags are nice. but i see "hiking" bags that seem nice too. some have hydration packs/compartments which i think is nice(but i do own a few canteens). i need something durable but obviously light weight. something that will get the job done.
any recommendations?
[EDIT] Adam, your observations of the MOLLE pack are very nice and have gotten me to check them out. the price is a bit high, but i ask this, food and water are important, but why not learn skills to trap, hunt, fish, and purify water?if you do that, you already cut down most of the gear in the pack concerning canteens and MREs and food.
also, i come more from an urban/sub-urban survival training, knowing how to find food and scout in urban/sub-urban areas. so a lot of gear hurts more than helps. but i am open to learning more. please teach me.
one thing about learning how to trap and store food is a good idea but in the inital bug out you need stuff to sustain you till your traps can start helping to supliment your bug out food its just one of the things you need to think of.
Don’t know if anyone addressed this but, in a BO situation the operative word is OUT. The idea is clear the area then you can go to ground and start living off the land. Japan has showed us that sometimes the very products of the land are spoiled/contaminated. That is why everyone is talking about what and how much food to carry out with you.
JMHO, Ben228
I have a number of packs that I use for bug out bags. Have been doing this for a number of years, since 1985, and have tried a great deal of equipment. I have used many surplus Swiss, German, and Swedish packs as well as the WW2 US canvas pack, the light weight jungle ruck, alice packs, and the current assualt packs. For the money I think that the best bang for the buck is the Alice Medium with the frame. If you want an excellent upgrade get the Blackhawk shoulder straps for it. As I get time I will review and photograph a number of different surplus packs that are on the market at a good price right now.
Recently read your post about the Alice pack as a BOB and was looking at sportsmansguide web site just now and remembered the article. In case anyone is looking for an Alice pack they have them used without frame for $ 17.97 plus shipping. In case anyone is interested.
I have carried both Camelbaks and canteens in the field, and both have their merits. Camelbaks fit nicely into all the new high-speed packs, like the Molle. You don't have to stop to un-holster a Camelbak while hiking. They definitely win the coolness factor. In the Marines I trained with ALICE and Y-Harness, and canteens. When Iraq kicked off, we got all the new MOLLE packs and Camelbaks. Plastic pack frames broke. Camelbaks leaked. I have never been able to break an ALICE pack or frame, nor seen a GI canteen tear or pop. I do prefer the newer LBE over the old Y-harness, as a point of personal preference. For my money, I have an ALICE mountain ruck(the big one) I can make it smaller by pulling the straps, but I can't make a small one bigger if I need to. And have you ever tried cleaning a Camelbak that got funky-tasting? KISS. I vote old school.
derek i have to agree that a camelbak is cool and hard to clean when they get that funky taste but they do serve as a good start for some people that want to carry the water and not have to stop and retreve the canteen as in they have to move and move now
I have an "anti-microbial" camelback bladder that my dad picked up for me. I left water in it from my last hiking trip this past summer, just found it a week ago and it doesn't have the smell you mentioned. I have had the basic bladders "go funky" on me, they can be a pain to clean but it can be done with a little bleach, and then run through some baking soda mixed with water and let it dry out, repeat if necessary. I have A LOT of gear here (my father and I both "collect" military surplus gear), I do prefer the camelback to the old 1 quart canteen, or the 2 quart "arctic" canteens. I like it because it fits nicely under my Special Forces Patrol Pack (which MOLLE and ALICE accessories can be fitted to) and keeps my hands free for whatever I need to be doing.
I do however agree, KISS is the best way to go for the majority of gear!
one thing that needs to be remebered is that we are talking about the guys that are working on a budget money in this day and age is tight for most of us and i for one think about how much i am spending and if i really need it that is why the ALICE packs are good the molle bags are a little more pricey
Vest is on order(LAPDGEAR)(lots of Molle at cheaperthandirt). Went with good hiking backpack(for wife and me) because I can sift the weight to waist and it has cool mesh that breathes for Texas heat…It also has a rain fly. Just ordered the Bear Grylls Gerber survival knife…Can I get it onto that vest?
Current us soldier, serving in Kuwait. read all your comments everything sounds good . Alot of what you need is personal preference and dictated by where you live or where you are when you have to bug. the best ccomment I heard was KISS( Keep it simple stupid) there are so many different scenario's that you could talk about for months even years. For example(Y2K) turned out to be nothing. All the gear I bought most of it never got used. Made excellent trading fodder and yard sale goods, so wasn't total loss. Always remember Knowledge is Power!
wizardholloway- THANK YOU for your service, and your comment!
You bring up a good point with the trade/yard sale idea. I am lucky enough to have been in the great outdoors most of my life, and twice as lucky to have a Ret. US Army Lt. Col. for a father, so gear is in NO shortage here! However, for those that aren't as lucky I have been this can be a way to get better gear down the line. If you buy the "bag you can afford", save up a little, then sell/trade the bag or other gear you want to upgrade and get "the bag you want"! It works, I have done it to get my Savage 300 win-mag rifle. You just have to be patient, and figure out what works for you, or how you get to the gear that will work best for you and live with/learn to adapt the bag/gear you have in the mean time!
Thanks again! There are still some of us here at home that appreciate what your doing over there!
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It always amazes me at how resilent the American public is. Even after ten years of these major conflicts, the majority of people still have positive comments. I guess part of it is they don't want this to be like Vietnam, where so many of our veterans, who were doing there jobs were treated so badly. I salute you and all the people like you. We couldn't do what we do without your support. So Mote It Be!
My family was stationed in Panama in 1989, I have seen first hand what folks like you guys over there do for us everyday! If it wasn't for the men and women of our armed forces, me and my family would not be here today. Keep safe, and hopefully you guys will be home soon, for good!
I always figured if SHTF I would be solely accountable for getting myself and my partner out in one piece, I bought 2 ex British army pattern 58 webbing sets from http://www.cheaperthandirt.com for about $30 for the set and added US ALICE pouches which fit on the old British set snug and safely.For a backpack I bought a civilian pack which had the padded back support.
This set up allows me to carry tent,shelter,1st aid,food,water,ammo and any tools I might need easily and without turning me into a pack mule (The 58 pattern ammo pouches are designed for old L1A1 mags which are same size as the M14 mag so they can carry AR mags easily too.As for defensive weaponry I've always been biased and preferred 9mm,.45,7.62 NATO,5.56 and 12 guage as if everything goes to hell these calibres would be the easiest to find or reload given that most goverment all western military and many civilian shooters use them.
The one rule I"ve always kept in mind that if SHTF the only person looking out for your well being is going to be you and the equipment mentioned above might be old and long out of service but it does work
One thing I don't see covered in most articles about buging out is a means of self-defense. I know we don't like to think about it but if a bug out bag is needed there may also be a need to defend yourself against crime or attack here is a link to a good article addressing this:
http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/survival-guns/s…
Actuly witwct hit the nail right on the head that is the one topic you'll notice that is always absent from goverment "make a plan make a kit" adverts on TV.
Directly after Katrina looting and street crime were rampant and in any town or city if TSHTF law enforcement and even national guard will have their hands full and as such you can expect looting,house breaking,assault,rape,murder to skyrocket until things can be brought back to some degree of normality.
A good friend of mine recently bought a folding Kel Tech rifle in 5.56 mm it apparantly folds in half to about 19 inches long and accepts STANAG M16/AR15 mags,He however holds to the idea of a 4 gun battery 1 rifle a 12g coach gun and a pair of handguns but obviously available funds and prior commitments dictate what can and cannot be afforded.
It is pretty much agreed to defend yourself at close range either on the move or in a house a shotgun pretty much takes care of things with a pre bought supply of 2.75 inch 00 buck shot and deer slugs with a few boxes of either 4,5,6 bird shot will bring in a good supply of small game too as well as dealing with any 2 legged predators that come around
Actuly witwct hit the nail right on the head that is the one topic you'll notice that is always absent from goverment "make a plan make a kit" adverts on TV.
Directly after Katrina looting and street crime were rampant and in any town or city if TSHTF law enforcement and even national guard will have their hands full and as such you can expect looting,house breaking,assault,rape,murder to skyrocket until things can be brought back to some degree of normality.
A good friend of mine recently bought a folding Kel Tech rifle in 5.56 mm it apparantly folds in half to about 19 inches long and accepts STANAG M16/AR15 mags,He however holds to the idea of a 4 gun battery 1 rifle a 12g coach gun and a pair of handguns but obviously available funds and prior commitments dictate what can and cannot be afforded.
It is pretty much agreed to defend yourself at close range either on the move or in a house a shotgun pretty much takes care of things with a pre bought supply of 2.75 inch 00 buck shot and deer slugs with a few boxes of either 4,5,6 bird shot will bring in a good supply of small game too as well as dealing with any 2 legged predators that come around
Actuly witwct hit the nail right on the head that is the one topic you'll notice that is always absent from goverment "make a plan make a kit" adverts on TV.
Directly after Katrina looting and street crime were rampant and in any town or city if TSHTF law enforcement and even national guard will have their hands full and as such you can expect looting,house breaking,assault,rape,murder to skyrocket until things can be brought back to some degree of normality.
A good friend of mine recently bought a folding Kel Tech rifle in 5.56 mm it apparantly folds in half to about 19 inches long and accepts STANAG M16/AR15 mags,He however holds to the idea of a 4 gun battery 1 rifle a 12g coach gun and a pair of handguns but obviously available funds and prior commitments dictate what can and cannot be afforded.
It is pretty much agreed to defend yourself at close range either on the move or in a house a shotgun pretty much takes care of things with a pre bought supply of 2.5 inch 00 buck shot and deer slugs with a few boxes of either 4,5,6 bird shot will bring in a good supply of small game too as well as dealing with any 2 legged predators that come around
I must apologise I have no idea why it appears that my reply posted three times in a row
The "bicycle BOB" is a good idea. Your right that they can get you further faster than someone on foot. Most folks don't realize that many armies had "bicycle divisions" up until Vietnam. Germany used bicycles for many tasks, including running supplies. The Japanese used bicycles extensively as well. At one point an Calvary officer in the US Army (can't remember his name, believe it was during WWI) said that the bicycle might surpass the horse and be used in Calvary charges! Probably a stretch, but it does show that when properly implemented a simple bicycle has some serious potential.
The "bicycle BOB" is a good idea. Your right that they can get you further faster than someone on foot. Most folks don't realize that many armies had "bicycle divisions" up until Vietnam. Germany used bicycles for many tasks, including running supplies. The Japanese used bicycles extensively as well. At one point an Calvary officer in the US Army (can't remember his name, believe it was during WWI) said that the bicycle might surpass the horse and be used in Calvary charges! Probably a stretch, but it does show that when properly implemented a simple bicycle has some serious potential.
The "bicycle BOB" is a good idea. Your right that they can get you further faster than someone on foot. Most folks don't realize that many armies had "bicycle divisions" up until Vietnam. Germany used bicycles for many tasks, including running supplies. The Japanese used bicycles extensively as well. At one point an Calvary officer in the US Army (can't remember his name, believe it was during WWI) said that the bicycle might surpass the horse and be used in Calvary charges! Probably a stretch, but it does show that when properly implemented a simple bicycle has some serious potential.
Forgot to say that the Viet Cong used bicycles to transport supplies down the Ho Chi Minh trail. They were pretty effective, and a much harder target to see/hit before the "Spooky's" got IR cameras and sights.
I am not a big fan of military packs as they are way too basic for my needs , not to mention just damn uncomfortable long distance . I decided to get a civil pack , After looking at many , I chose one of the Badlands brand hunting packs . Why ? 1. All of them are insanely tough ! 2. they are designed to pack out more than you packed in . 3. they are comfortable with heavy loads . 4 they have rifle and bow quick- access scabbards built in , designed for to use without taking off the pack .. I would stay away from civil hiking and backpacking packs and go with the hunting packs as the mentality and what they are designed to do is very different . Hunting packs are designed for use in rough and untamed terrain whereas the others are for people that dont go off the trail . . Hunting packs are ALWAYS camo . Its a very personal choice but this worked extremely well for me . Yes you are going to pay around $260.00 or more for the pack , but it is well designed , carries a butt load of gear comfortably , has many realistic on the move features and in the end I feel that my life is worth much more than what I payed for it to have a well thought out , well designed , dependable piece of equipment on my back . Alice is fine on a budget but like with a lot of GI stuff , its mass produced by a defense contractor that got the lowest bid …..and very basic , not designed for comfort ( which if everything around you is going to be miserable after the SHTF ) every small comfort will help . My philosophy is : if you have to jerry rig your gear for it to fit your needs . with pads , etc. …. you bought the wrong gear .
those are nice but in my group we are looking at the 5.11 tactical gear i am doing a review on their push bag which is like a shoulder bag for my guys right now.
Just arrived on the survival scene and excited to be a part of it!!!! I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with all of the info here, I find this topic to be dominating my every thought… Anyway, just wanted to say hey to everybody and let you all know that I really appreciate all of the valuable info and look forward to all future installments! Thanks again…
I added a pack of cigarettes to my bag. They burn long and you never know if you will need it to make a new friend or to barter with.
<a href="http://www.opsgear.com” target=”_blank”>www.opsgear.com has a good selection of tac vests and MOLLE equipment at affordable prices. They also have a "vest builder" application that will allow you to configure a vest with pouches and attachments, 360 views, so you can see how you will have the vest set up to your specifications, but being MOLLE, it can be changed rapidly if the need arises. They also sell packs and other gear.
I also recommend buying aftermarket straps and a kidney pad for anyone using the ALICE system. They make humping that ruck more comfortable over the long haul.
Brigade Quartermaster had the pack shelves on clearance for the ALICE LC2 frames not long ago. I think they were $5 each but unsure if they have any left. They were in the "bargain bunker".
I like the "SAW" ammo pouch, as they will accomodate a full MRE in them. I also use a drop leg platform with pouches attached there as as well. SpecOps Brand and OpsGear have several items on their sites that be viewed to see what type of equipment is out there. Most military pouches are available in plain earth tones to not draw additional scrutiny.
Also look into using tump lines for long treks. Canoers use these alot for portages for heavy weights.
Have had BOB & INCH bags now for nearly 20 years. In the beginning used old Medium ALICE pack. Carried INCH pack for backpacking trips just imagining SHTF scenarios that would make it a reality. Over last decade, went to BlackHawk & SnugPak packs, both were Awesome. Last Month, found two Large Alice Packs in Excellent Condition on E-bay for 69.99, both had straps replaced with newer, wider, padded straps and sternum straps. Bought them just to have reserve pack or trade item. Also, LA Police Gear & US Cavalry ran sales on boots last month and got great closeout Bates & Altama boots for less than half price! Search and Recover..Love this site!
I just bought a close-out pack bag from them for 30 bucks. Checked it out, tried it out and just ordered another. Both in tan color. Great site to watch for sales.
Original directions on the site for assembling a BOB indicate clothes, and says "not blue jeans." Why not? Cotton? They're tough, and you would blend in with most people as compared to camo BDU. More practical. What are thoughts by others? I would prefer cargo pockets, and tougher materials, but wonder about standing out,or being mistaken for military. What would be best?
I'm thinking of several khaki pants for mine. They have pockets to store small items.
Glidemann, raevynskyye has a good point, khaki is a subtle color that blends well in most environments. I chose "Dickie" cargo work pants in their Khaki/ tan color. They are lighter than jeans, very tough, the 60/ 40 poly/cotton blend dries quickly and very quiet after a couple washings. The biggest selling point for me is you can get them at Wally world, for about 20 bucks a pair. Yes, I have other pants, 5.11, columbia, etc, but the inexpensive Dickies seem to find their way on every backwoods adventure.
Biggest problem with jeans is that they don't dry fast. Imagine walking all day in wet jeans with the inevitable chafing that would occur. There's better options out there for the same/or less than you'd pay for a pair of Levis.
in regards to the ALICE pack, here's my experience: get rid of the frame, it's heavy, bulky and not very comfortable. Without the metal frame the pack is way more comfortable and can be worn with a set of webbing. Don't pack it too heavy, keep it under 30lbs. Put your sleeping bag in the main compartment plus some extra clothes and rations. Don't put heavy stuff in the external pouches it'll pull the weight back and down (pack heavy objects near your back and towards the top). Without the frame you can't carry 75 lbs. but then when you're bugging out, you don't want 75 lbs. of crap on your back. Combining the pack with web gear lightens the pack and makes more gear easily accessible on the webbing. Good luck soulja…
First let me say, I understand you get what you pay for. I also understand something is better than nothing! With the economy the way it is, a cheap emergency kit beats nothing. Even if its only to fill the possible need until a better quality option can be afforded. Anyone on this site knows that an emergency kit or well stocked B.O.B. can be expensive! On with my story…. While performing my manly duty of bag-holder as my lady shops, I got a little bored. To entertain myself I decided to play a little game in the Dollar Tree (a local chain $1 store). I would brows the isles and see how many things I could spot that would come in handy in an emergency kit. I WAS AMAZED at what items could be purchased for a dollar or less at these places. It would behove any survivalist to really give this place a good once-over! If you don't take a $20 bill and head to one of these, you are really missing out! here is just a SHORT list of the things I spotted:
15yd roll of duct tape
stainless steel swiss army knife (knock-off version)
pack of large zip-ties
candles
3-pack of lighters
lighter fluid
8-inch round cake pan (better than a $15 camping plate/bowl cooking set)
work gloves
multi-bit screwdriver
flashlights
steel wool
batteries
battery tester
mini-AM/FM radio
sewing kit
dental floss
28oz aluminum sports bottle (think kleen canteen for $25)
single egg frying pan
16oz boiler
sterno
2-pack aluminum cooling rack (think light weight campfire grate)
10-pack of strike on the box matches
10-pack of the single serve drink mixes for bottled water.
dried soups
foil packed tuna
spices
salt/pepper pre-filled shaker set
5-pack of bamboo cooking utensils
large bag of cotton balls
petroleum jelly
3-pack of lip balm
jerky
ponchos
2-pack of bandanas
3-pack of large box cutters (the break-away-blade type)
Very cool idea to pass the time. I have also had to perform the manly duty of bag holder on many an occasion…
With all due respect, during my journey in life I've learned a few lessons one of which is Murphy's Law i.e., if it can go wrong it will. Getting what you pay for has been another expensive lesson. I would much prefer to shop (for example) at REI , Maxpedition, or other heavily product tested retailer and pay for a knife blade that didn't break when I really needed it, flashlights where the switch didn't fail or break, toilet paper that didn't disintegrate before using it, etc. etc. Everything I 'collect' now is tried and tested by someplace I trust i.e., Nutinfancy, climbers, hikers, experienced prepper's, or equal. I've tried inexpensive mosquito repellent for example & have it attract more than repel, or burn a cheap candle where the wick refused to stay lit or wax wasn't good enough to burn….stuff like that. It's miserable enough to be cold or hot or wet and have gear that's no good too. JMHO.
Here's a suggestion on clothing for your BOB. Dickies work wear, has some really stout 65% poly 35% cotton work pants at most Big Box stores incl WALLY WORLD. They can be had for under 20 bucks and are tought as nails, generously cut for movement, light and dry quickly.
yeah im still tryin to find the money to buy a pack. thanks for the begginers push.
I love the ALICE pack for storing gear and moving from one location to another. (As long as the ALICE pack is on my back for an hour or less)!
I have a XL ALICE pack and a MOLLE patrol pack which do you think wuold be the better way to go and why
I'll start by saying this is a great site- lots of great info and ideas. Also good to read others' input without reading online bickering. To get to the point, I've been pretty happy with the blackhawk cyclone bag. Plenty of storage, the molle attachments allow lots of other gear to be thrown on (med-packs, gas mask bag, mag pouches, etc), and the hydration bladder is also very key. I've taken the pack on a 5 mile hike up a local mountain (pretty steep in places) and was happy with the comfort level. Also, it's not ridiculously overpriced. Would love to hear any feedback from others.
I started my first BOB about a month ago. Lucky for me I had a great frame pack from when I was in Scouts. It was about $180 12 yrs ago and barely got used. It's light as a feather and very strong. Cleaned it up and got started. Trying to keep it 40lb or less. At about half that now. I love this site, it seems to have a lot of professional/military/old-wizard-like contributions and opinions. I like what I briefly skimmed over about having something ready even if it's not an overpriced frame pack from yrs ago or a military pack. Just have something ready, and when/if you have the cash get a nice little gift for yourself.
Great site, and I like reading peoples comments on their individual choices. Lot of Ideas.
My pack is more of an "Apocalypse Bag", meaning if I have to bust it out, the metaphorical shit has hit the fan. In my pack I have matches, a lighter and a magnesium fire starter. I personally think fire is one of the most important things you can have in a situation on your own. So I packed accordingly, besides, it's like half a pound.
I have a tarp and two rolls of duck tape. A hand saw, E-tool,rope, water purification kit, first aid, changes of clothes, dried food and a small tent, Along with a few other things. One of the things I have chosen, that I believe is over- looked, is a pellet rifle. I have a small pellet rifle and it straps right on the side of my pack. Pellets are cheap, effective (1000 fps) and would be priceless when it comes to getting food. I do have personel defense weapons as well, so feel free to reply if your curious.
Just curious why you went with a pellet rifle over a .22LR? A Ruger 10/22 with a black composite stock for example. Ammo is cheap, plentiful, and light compared to larger calibers. I'm not saying you're wrong or that it's a bad choice. Just looking to learn.
Noise for one. Sometimes you want a whisper. The 10/22 has to use the .22 LR round. It won't chamber the .22 short or CB rounds. I got the single six .22/.22 mag for those poppers, and very accurate I may add but still may be a little loud for some instances. I've toyed with getting a pellet rifle for just those instances where urban surrounding dictate discretion.
Something I think is important to have in a BOB and seems to be looked over is an adjustable wrench and a pair of visegrips. While adding weight they may be crucial to repairing or hindering something so others cannot use it against you.
Another shelter idea is a pop up hunting blind. They are light weight, cheap, fast to set up, water resistant, blend in, and come in storage bag that can easily be strapped to your BOB. Water proof canoeing bags are great BOB liners, always important to keep things dry.
my BOB is also in an alice frame/bag and when i tried it without the frame i couldnt make it down my stairs without having to readjust for comfort which means that it would drive me BONKERS in the wild and possibly be the one thing that causes me to slack and die in a survival situation so i ALWAYS use the frame. another plus to the frame is the modular capibility, once you have setup and secured your base camp you can stowe the bag safely and wear just the frame with various things lashed to it for a small recon or SAR. thats my 2 cents, dont spend it all in one place
I question the need for a snake bite kit. Except for small children and pets, snake bite is almost always your fault. Further, medical experts have told me that an amature cutting into flesh can do more damage than the venom. I'm not an expert, but I trust those who are.
im starting to get a bug out bag please give me a list of contents and a good gun to go with and a link thankyou
I carried an ALICE for a number of years and they are the low tech carrying system of the Viet Nam era. With the frame offers a small amount of waist load bearing while increasing the air flow between body and gear. This was seen as too small by some which lead to the large mountain rucksac being invented… Also a primitive back pack. If it’s all you can afford use the frame but save up for a good new carrying system that you can use for long periods of time without killing your back and shoulders. NorthFace has one of the best suspension systems available.
Use the frame, the weight distribution will be better and carrying more wieght for a longer time will be much easier. I own a WW2 army pack with a full metal frame, not the most confortable to carry with but easier than some other packs.
New to the BOB world and looking for a decent pack. Anyone have/used/know about the Falcon-II or Condor-II pack from Maxpedition? A bit on the expensive side I'm sure but looking at other packs I'd hate to have them fail when needed the most. I suppose I could/should look around at some local surplus stores as well.
The trick to the frame or no frame on the alice pack is 1 extra set of shoulder straps and you can use this system together or as individual packs also a few high quality tie down straps are quite useful.
I like these posts and this website for the simple fact to help out those that are just starting out and need some direction and guidance. Although I used the Alice pack when I was in the Army, I didn't think it was large enough for my needs for a Gobag. I understand there are those that either, like you said, did not want to drop a bill or two, or could afford to. However, I read and researched every website I could on literally every possible bag, that civilians could use. I found the CFP-90. I had more positive reviews about that as well. Now, it IS big with lots of versatility and can carry a lot of weight. One thing to keep in mind I learned in the Army as an operator in the special operations group, you can put an enormous amount of weight in your pack and as long as you have it tweaked or set for your back and hips, it relieves the weight and makes it more possible to complete your mission with a heavy load. Utilize all the options on whichever pack you use like the chest straps, frames and make sure you compress the outside down tight so it won't sway when moving thus making it feel heavy. For those setting up their Gobags, keep one cardinal rule in everything you choose to put together and that is to look for equipment that provides versatility, not duplicity… meaning try to get something you can have multiple uses for. Someone earlier had also posted that you show an inventory for whats in your bag. That's a good idea but I want to add you might draw a schematic of your pack and show "where" the items are in case they may need to get into your pack if you can't. One last thing, if you have multiple others in your group and more than just you have the same pack, do the inventory,schematic drawing and everyone pack the items in the same place in your packs. Scenario: you all are getting your supplies attacked by some rogue force. someone gets hurt and you need to get to your gobag but maybe pinned down or it is too far away but your buddy's pack is closer. You can get to that pack and have the same items in the same place and use it without having to rummage through and look for things. Just what we utilized in my unit in the army. Same gear, same place packed.
Ok I've elected to build my pack using my privately owned gear from when I was in the Kansas Army National Guard and the gear I got while I was in a WW-2 re-enactment group. Most of my modern military gear was bought while I was in the service from the Clothing Sales stores on Fort Riley and Fort Sill. Now my WW-2 gear is a mixed collection of vintage and modern made reproduction gear. The main two components are from World War Two Impressions (an American company in California that makes most of the gear they sell.) These are an M1928 Haversack with a Meat Can pouch and an M1923 Cartridge Belt. Now many of you have M4 or AK type rifles, me I have an M1 Garand and an M59/ 66A1 Yugo SKS. The cartridge belt has ten pockets that each hold one M1 Garand clip or small items (I use them to hold clips.)
I use an LC-2 buttpack to give me another pouch and it's attached to the rear of the cartridge belt. In the haversack I have three day's change of underclothing including socks, a towel and washcloth, and a coil of rope (7/16" x 100'). In the buttpack I have three days' worth of food (mostly Bumble Bee tuna salad and chicken salad snack kits and some ramen soup packets.) In the meat can pouch I have my mess kit, a 1 qt. Ziploc bag with a couple handfuls of green tea tea-bags, my eating utensils (knife, fork, & spoon), and some Keebler granola-fudge bars.
On the cartridge belt I have a Ka-Bar USMC combat knife, an M1910 canteen carrier with a vintage (1945) stainless canteen and cup, an USMC wrap around canteen carrier with another vintage (1944) canteen and cup (the cups can be used to cook in), an M1942 first aid dressing pouch with a Carlisle bandage, and an M1936 .45 magazine pocket (I keep two Government M1911 7 round magazines in this.)
On the straps of the Haversack I have an LC-1 M16 ammo pouch (I keep six 10 round SKS stripper clips in this) and an M56 .45 magazine pocket (I keep two surplus KSHP 7 round M1911 magazines in this.) I can attach my two position JBP leather M1911 holster on the left shoulder strap just above the leftside of the cartridge belt. I use the loops on the hoster for carrying it in the small of my back when I carry it this way.
In addition to the items I've spoke about so far I have a vintage Lightweight Gas Mask Bag (in WW-2 was used to carry the M-4 Gas Mask.) This item like the G.I. of my grandfather's day I use as a carry-all (the G.I.s used to "lose" the gas mask.) I keep some of my extra gear in here like a cleaning kit for my firearms, a spare multiplier, a fire-starter kit, my first aid kit, and some spare ammo. You'd be surprised what you can carry in this bag and At the Front Militaria make here in the US a couple of reproductions of this unit. I also have a tri-fold map case I keep in here.
As for shetler and sleeping I've made a bedroll of a vintage Vietnam War era rubberized poncho and a 1980s era poncho liner. This I've wrapped up some changes of outer clothing like pants and shirts in as well. Now after reading some other articles I intend to get at least one other poncho and liner (so I can have a better bedroll and a ground cloth as well as a secondary rain cover.) This bedroll is attached to the bottom straps of the LC-2 buttpack.
Now for additional water carriage I am looking for two plastic G.I. 1 qt. canteens, their cups, and their LC-2 carriers. Once I find which box these are in they will be attached using their ALICE clips to the left and right sides of the exterior of the buttpack.
For carrying extra loaded ammo for the Garand I have two bandoliers each with six pockets. Each pocket holds one 8 round enblock clip for the M1. If you do the math that would be 22 clips times 8 rounds or 176 rounds. (I'm looking to get some Marine Corps bedroll tie down straps and one or two Rigger small rifle clip pouches from World War Two Impressions. The plan is to strap one or both Rigger pouches to the stock of the Garand. A Rigger pouch can carry five 8 round Garand clips according to Juan Gonzales the owner of WWII Impressions.)
Anybody have experience with the CFP 90 ?
Sorry, I forgot to add food. Did not see you mention food supplies, but a family of four, especially with little ones, will go through a good bit of food. For weight/space concerns you may want to consider freeze-dried. As a "backup" I have ordered Mainstay food rations, they supposedly taste like lemon pound cake (I haven't tried them yet) and there is 3600kc per pack broken into 400kc bars. Here is the link to a web site that will give you more info on the Mainstay product. http://www.survivorind.com/foodr.html
Like lemon pound cake that has been in your back pocket fir a week…
it’s quite dense, but tasty. I’ve eaten mine when they got cose to expiration. They’re fine to eat.
I recommend “ER” brand bars as they are the only ones with no tropical/palm oils and no trans-fat.
Maybe being healthy isn’t top of the list when you’re forced to eat these, but consider allergies and other no-fun near-term side effects of trans-fats.
They also make dog and cat food versions (for animals, not made with).
quakekare.com or homelandpreparedness.com
I would use a separate hydration system, even if attached to the BOB. If you get a leak in the bladder, you will have wet gear. I have 1 pack made by SpecOps Brand and 2 packs made by Bug Out. I use the the larger Bug Out bag for my everyday carry bag and the SpecOps and smaller Bug Out are set up for use by my older 2 kids. I have a large ALICE pack also. My youngest 2, ages 3 and 7, have the affordable but fairly strong hunting backpacks I got at Walmart. I also have alot of the MOLLE equipment and pouches from my military days that I have incorporated in my hunting gear. I wear an LBE/LBV whenever in the field and have bought most of my pouches in just plain earth tones and configure it to help break up my outline without wearing a bunch of camo.
I empty and "stretch" the springs on my magazines every month while I clean them. If I shoot, I do it then as well during the weapons maintenance.
Have subscribed to Backwoodsman magazine now for 10 years and purchased 5 years worth of back issues…..It is THE BEST MAGAZINE I HAVE EVER READ!!! And If you can scrounge together $250. you can get a subscription for life, no further fees!!! Awesome and well worth it!! The newer "Survival Quarterly" Magazine by Ron Hood would be a second choice tied with Dave Canterbury' "Self Reliance Illustrated", also new. Both of these are informative and written by several writers all foremost in the knowledge of Survival related fields!!
thnaks T.J. i am looking into Survival quarterly sounds like my type of publication
The one thing about hunting/trapping/foraging is that no matter how good you are it's not 100% guarenteed that you will find food consistantly. Freeze dried food/energy bars are great to sustain you in between being able to find your own source of food.
While a heavy BOB sucks to carry, if you get caught in a situation where you need that stuff, the water you drink and the food you carry will go fast. You'll be glad you packed it when you get hungry/ thirsty! Of course. The more Food/Water you carry, the more you need, so I guess we can't win either way.
I really appreciate you putting up the pre-filter comment. Thats one thing that will be worth its weight in gold. My personal choice in weapons is a Taurus 24 7 pro .45 (100 rds), an Bushmaster AR with 6 power scope (300 rds) and a pellet rifle. Alot of folks laugh, but I wont waste ammo on food and I can carry a thousand pellets without even feeling the weight. I will be a rabbit/ squirrel slayer. If all else fails, I still have my sharpened E-tool that I can swing like Conan if I have to. Of course all these things mean nothing if you cant use them right, so I make a point to get out to the range or off the grid every now and then.
please help need a list of bob contets anda link to a good survival gun
I have a question concerning the use of a separate hydration blader & carrier; can they be worn under packs without too much trouble?
ChefBear and Lucas
I use an RIA M1911 too and I have the factory Novak mag and a Chip McCormick mag. I like the CM mag as it carries 8 rounds in the same space as a standared 7 round mag. I have two surplus KSHP (Kansas Highway Patrol) 7 round mags too. These when I pack my BoB for testing are carried in an M56 .45 magazine pocket clipped by ALICE clips to my right shoulder strap on the M1928 Haversack that serves also as the harness for my BoB kit. I also take my two position JBP holster and attach it to the left shoulder strap just above the M1923 cartridge belt. This gives me my pistol at an easy access point on the front.
I wear a Camelbak without trouble with my packs. I just have a "plain" carrier (without pockets) when wearing my packs. I also have a Camelbak with an external pocket that I wear when doing hikes in the local state park so I can have essential gear without the rucksack.
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